I saw that Lin-Manuel Miranda said he was reading RHE's last book (Inspired). How cool is that? (Let's dream of him writing a hip-hop musical about the Bible now.)
This makes me happy to hear. I finally decided to start reading Inspired a few weeks ago but haven’t been able to get through the first few pages because I’m crying too hard. Still so sad, still so angry.
I don’t really know how this all works, but if I could just get some prayers that Things will get better, I’d be so grateful. It’s just been one awful thing after another for over three years now, mostly with my health. I know this isn’t how this works, but I wish someone else would carry the load for even a day. I could definitely use the positive thoughts and prayers. Thanks.
One of my understandings of the way prayer works is the Buddhist concept of "tonglen" and visualizing taking up the pain of another and sending them peace. I will be trying to lift your burden in my heart, and sending you peace.
Praying that your heart will be at peace, and that life will calm down for you. I'm so sorry you're going through a shitty period, and hope it will end soon.
Making friends in your thirties: how do people do it? Can someone please tell me. Because my friend group is spread across the country and those who are local are wrapped up in career stuff (mostly young lawyers). It suddenly hit me that I feel super lonely for the first time in my life and it is WILD.
(And to tie this in with Jesus themes: I remember a meme somewhere that said the real miracle was that Jesus was a dude in his 30’s with 12 close friends who hung out all the time.)
I remember seeing this tweet and laughing. I feel this. My close friends with years under our belts are scattered to the four winds. Marco Polo has weirdly been this game changing way to stay connected and remember that I really am likable and have friends?
Throw a toddler in the mix who laughs in the face of plans, and it's so so hard to connect in person, especially as childless local friends have kind of stepped back/ghosted.
I do have a couple of groups (who still only struggle to get together every couple of months but LIFE) centered on workshopping and sharing poems, so the old adage about finding people with similar interests feels true. I took the month of social media in August and it made me confront my real loneliness in a way that wasn't pleasant but was good. If it helps, I know many, many of us have this struggle.
Speaking of religion, even though it feels like a family in some of the bad ways (claustrophobic, crotchety uncles, obligatory get-togethers), church helps too.
I was just thinking about how nice it is when kids get a little older and you don't have to be like "we can probably get together for this 90 minute window between naps and meltdown"
Long time listener, first time caller...definitely did not anticipate my lack of friends to be the thing that prompted me to comment. If any of y'all are in central Texas, hit me up! I moved here almost a year ago for my first big-kid job and still don't have any friends outside of work. Some of it is down to my tendency towards hermit-ness, some of it is just because it's hard. Solidarity, y'all.
This is such a classic millennial answer but: the internet!! I've stopped using facebook to catch up with people I actually grew up with, and I've joined all kinds of groups - fan groups for bands or podcasts, some of which have actual location specific groups. I'm not even a rabid fan of any of these things, but I have made real life/help me move out on a Tuesday friends through them.
I know you’re talking locally but I am always looking for online friends (that goes for all of y’all!) Twitter: @katiesays_. I’ll follow you back, let’s be pals :)
If you are religious, church can be a really good place for this. You may have to visit several. Find one you generally like, and then ask about "life groups", "small groups" "Bible studies" etc. Once you're in a church you like, you may STILL have to check out 3 or 4 such groups to find a group you like.
The reason we make friends more easily when we are young is that we see the same people frequently and share our day-to-day experiences with them. If you can see the same people on Sunday and then again during the week, it will be hard to not make friends with them.
That's true, church is kind of a built in social group. We're even carpooling to our out of boundaries school with someone from school--the kids are even in the same class.
I came to this conclusion recently! If anyone has church suggestions in the LA area I’m all ears. Central LA or Westwood areas preferred, but I’m fairly flexible and close to a lot of public transit
I can't find in your thread if you're looking for a particular denomination, but if you're not and are a) into very crunchy no-dogma church and b) cool with long periods of silence, I just started attending the Quaker Meeting in Pasadena and they're really lovely and welcoming. (Also, I'm new-ish to LA and trying to make friends, if you want to grab coffee or a drink sometime)
This is so corny, but taking classes or joining groups really works in finding friends! I've found so many wonderful friends through dance classes... we got to know each other by f'ing up our routines and laughing and supporting each other as we learned. (It helps that there's a great bar next door to our studio for after-class drinks.) I'm also meaning to join a hiking meetup group, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
Also, remember that your local friends are in a super-busy time of their lives as they establish their careers, but it won't last forever. They will settle into their work, as will you, and you'll find time for each other again. I've been there and I know it's hard, but having some patience as your friendship dynamics change will make you feel a little more sane about it all.
LA! I’m planning a friend reunion of sorts soon, because I actually do have school friends here, we’ve just gotten blown about by work stuff and my besties from law school are sadly in other cities. If you know of cool churches in these parts I’d be really interested.
I have a weekly meetup with my friends where we pretend to watch the Bachelor but really just eat cheese and talk. It’s a regularly scheduled but low pressure way to regularly see people and invite new people in.
I'm having to make new friends in my 40s, as we moved across the country. It is HARD. I have had some luck with Meet Up though--people post activities they like to do and meet up places. It's like dating for friends. I've done some amazing meditation hikes as a result. Best of luck. It's hard.
A group here called Inner Rebel offers free hikes with a guided meditation at the top. My very loving and bossy best friend located their Meet Up and made me go. :-)
(who knows why my picture is this wild one, but I digress). Friends in 30's!! Certainly it depends where you live and what the "scene" is like, but things that helped me were social sports leagues and church. I play kickball and softball, have done dodgeball and bowling in the past. It took me a few different tries (aka a couple of seasons) but I found an amazing group of people who are now my closest friends, and, to tie in the religion, I will be getting ordained (online, wooo) and officiating a low key Godparent service for one of my friends in the spring. If sports don't appeal to you, I keep telling my sister to look into local art classes (sewing, ceramics, pottery, etc) or, if you're into it, Junior League is another option - with the benefit of service opportunities.
Church is obviously religious in it's own right, but I found a church with a) a younger pastor and b) an active 20's & 30's group that held potlucks once a month. We made a concerted effort to dedicate ourselves to connecting more, so we have a groupme group and are trying harder to schedule more "for fun" things.
I was away from my city for a year and haven’t regularly attended church since coming back (nearly) a year ago. For a mix of reasons, some legit (complicated feels), some kind of weenieish (worry that it would change the dynamic in my relationship), and some just lazy (I like my bed on Sunday mornings).
Annnyway, finally talked to bf about how I was having a rough time lately and he was kind and supportive about church stuff when I said that I wanted to make that a more regular part of my life again. Which, like, my ~spiritual life~ is not at his discretion! But also the thought of changing the relationship scared me. Truly, I am a martyr for the cross lol.
So I'll be straight up with you: it took me foooorever to get back to church. Like from confirmation (when my mom stopped making me go) to about two years ago, around 30. Saturn's return, maybe? Is that blasphemous to mention in the same conversation? Anyway, I picked my church because it was Episcopal and close to my house, and I really lucked out. I moved within the past year, and now I am about 14 blocks from church instead of 4, and well, now I only seem to make it to the 20's & 30's stuff, but not actual church. I was very interested in the community aspect of church, and have been honest with the group that I don't really feel Jesus. They all seem to have stories about feeling connected to God, etc and I just...don't. I think it would be nice, but there hasn't been a *moment*.
Re: changing dynamics...I have found that sharing with friends and possible love interests that I go to church/care about my religion is scary. I feel that I approach religion in a specific way, and that way is definitively not the overarching, bible thumping narrative I think many people have. I feel like I want them to KNOW I'm not like that.
Making friends as an adult is so hard! I'm struggling to make local friends, too -- I found a weekly knitting group to go to, and that's nice. Do you have a hobby that lends itself to meeting up with other people?
My other plan is community theater, lol! I really want to get into screenwriting and playwriting, but they’re pretty solitary pursuits and I figured local theater stuff would be a good option to re-enter that realm.
I wonder about this all the time! My closest friends are from growing up but when we moved 12 hours away SIX years ago I didn’t realize how hard it would be to make friends. I’ve been here six years and still feel rather lonely. I bought tickets to see The Indigo Girls with the local symphony not realizing my husband is on call and unable to go and....I feel so sad because I don’t really have anyone local to invite
Invite someone! Anyone you can find! It's like a friend date. As a single person, I always buy two tickets to things and then just find someone to go. Sometimes they really like the thing, but other times, they just want to do something. Sometimes, we really connect, and see eachother more after. Sometimes, we are just buddies for that night. I would just start asking anyone whose name you know that you might theoretically like to spend an hour with!
Ah great idea! I'm really not sure what to do about my desire for a community of faith (without knowing what that faith is) and also just having friends, but volunteering is a v. v. good start.
I am still dealing with my son's attempted suicide, and I'm looking for a way to get involved in the mental health care crisis in this country. Summary of the three weeks I've spent grieving and terrified: 99 percent of us can afford care that is subpar and extremely hard to get. One percent of us can sell our first born children to procure something that may be better. I just wrote an $18,000 check, borrowed from retirement, that will cover FOUR weeks of treatment for my son, who is high-risk for repeat attempts. They recommend SIX MONTHS. Any similar experiences/ideas for getting involved?
Donna, I'm so sorry to hear that you and your family are going through this. You're right; the way our country treats mental health is shameful. Your son is lucky to have you on his side.
You mentioned wanting to get involved in the mental health crisis somehow. One way is by volunteering with the Crisis Text Line, a free 24/7 service that lets users confidentially text with trained crisis counselors (of which I'm one). I find it very rewarding. They train you, and they ask that you volunteer 4 hours a week for a year. You make your own schedule and do it all from home, whenever you want. Here's more info: https://www.crisistextline.org/volunteer
I've been dealing with a very similar issue with my younger brother. It has been horrible and awful and exhausting and I wish I had advice based on my experience, but it has been similar to yours. My mom's entire wages for her part-time teaching job for a year went to his treatment at a program (which he opted to do for only a month, even though he needed more, because he is legally adult and he can walk away). Luckily my sister works in wilderness therapy so she has been able to talk to contacts at different programs and know the ropes a little better, but it is hard. I'll pray for your son when I pray for my brother!
I will pray for your brother. My son wants to recover from depression, but doesn't want to live if he can't, which is just a horrible thing to know. We think we can borrow enough $$ for three months of treatment; we're being told six is what he needs. And WE'RE lucky. I used to be a criminal defense attorney; now I know why so many folks end up in THAT system needing treatment. Just heartbreaking.
NAMI is great. I also believe the easiest way out of this is for primary care physicians to prescribe anti-depressants in most cases. (There aren’t enough psychiatrists for everyone but not everyone needs a psychiatrist.) so I preach that Gospel as often as I can. But mostly NAMI.
My big Jesus news is that I'm going to be a deacon (caretaking ministry) at my church! Frankly, I'm constantly shocked that they don't ask me to refrain from mentioning my association with them in public, let alone asking me to participate in some sort of ministry!
I have another job interview this afternoon. I also applied to Divinity School and have been accepted (with 75% scholarship - more should be on the way and will dictate if it’s a real option). I’d love prayers for discernment!
woohoo! I'm in my 3rd year of my Mdiv, craziest life shift - hard - wouldn't trade it. prayers for discernment, try it on like a coat and wear it around...how does it fit?
YAYYY. Every now and then I get wistful about going to div school, but I have no idea what I'd do with it other than just keep reading thick books about the Bible.
For the sake of my husband and his relationship with his kiddos, we are gonna need to move to the town where they live with their mom. But that means leaving behind a church that I LOVE pastoring. And struggling to find a church to serve in a community that’s far from progressive. I need prayers to find work, for my son who will be uprooted, and for all the change on the horizon.
Hey! Nicole I just wanted to let you know that a Jesus Weds from July resulted in me connecting with another lovely commented named Sharon about my husband's job search (he recently left his role as a pastor and is looking for non-ministry roles for now) and her husband provided some great career coaching based on his similar experience! I thought that was really neat. He's still searching, so continued prayers would be appreciated! This summer has been a strange transition to no longer being a pastor's family, and it was an emotional departure (we really did love our church) but the reduction is stress was INSTANTANEOUS. I have a spouse who sleeps again!
Job leads in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area also appreciated!
I messaged the other Monica (from the non Jesus days) about a piece of silly jewelry I inherited and she was so nice to take time and share her expertise. I love this community.
Jesus news here is that I LOVE all of my divinity school classes and have made some friends of faith already! The plan now is to find a new spiritual director in my new town and figure out how I can do some service/liturgical work around my job and courses.
Adding to the people who are reconnecting with their faith. I (logical rational type that I was who couldn't possibly believe in anything that wasn't SCIENCE) lost my faith at about 16, although it was pretty tenuous even before that. Over the last year I've started to feel more of a connection to... something, and as time's gone on that something has slowly become God (I'm British, so saying "Jesus" still feels really weird, but yeah, that). Anyway, thanks in no small part to the reading Nicole has recommended in the past I've got to the point where I've felt able to come to terms with how I'm feeling, and what it means. I started attending a church near my house and it's just been completely wonderful. A small, lively congregation with a disproportionately fantastic choir that has just welcomed me wholeheartedly. My heart feels so full.
My boyfriend is really struggling with it, though. He's been a committed atheist for ages and is finding it hard to adapt to me sliding into believing something that he not only doesn't believe, but doesn't like. He's slowly, slowly getting more used to it, I think, but I feel like we've got a lot of processing and negotiating ahead of us, and I feel a bit overwhelmed.
I had this happen as well. We navigated it the best we could, but we eventually felt it was just a barrier we couldn't push past. I decided I wanted someone to love me for my faith, not in spite of it. It was very, very tough, but ... **gestures vaguely** so is life.
Prayer request for a close family friend who took a bad fall this weekend. He sustained a serious head injury, and he's now in the hospital, intubated, but the path forward will likely be difficult. His wife is by his side, and his two young children started school this week.
Asking for prayers for me and my family. My beloved father died from cancer three weeks ago. He had been slowly declining but took a bad turn suddenly, and so it still felt like he died very quickly, if that makes sense. He was also my business partner - just the two of us in charge - and having to continue working without him is almost unbearable. Today is just a bad day and I feel so depressed and useless and I just want my dad back 😭
Hi everyone! I'm not really sure how this works to be honest! This is my first time actually posting on Jesus Wednesday, but I've been reading along for a while now.
I was raised Baptist, but left the church at 16 when I came out as a lesbian. But these last couple of years have been difficult, and I've found myself missing that connection to God. What are some of your favorite books or podcasts about Jesus, and reconnecting with him and Our Father? It's been about 10 years since I stepped foot in a church so I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed as I wade back in. Thanks!!
Seconding Rachel Held Evans' books - her books got me out of a dark place in my faith. I also just finished Shameless: A Sexual Reformation by Nadia Bolz-Weber and loved it, if you're looking for something specifically about sexuality!
For me, Anne Lamott's first autobiography gave me permission to both love Jesus and be my messy, dirty self. Plus literally everything everyone recommended here.
What connected/resonated for you when you were younger? What does a connection to God look like for you? Have you been more "head" or "heart" in your faith life?
I really really recommend Waiting on God by Simone Weil. She was never baptized but loved Jesus with her whole heart and had a connection to God that was completely remarkable. Her love is so ardent and clear that you can't help but be swept away by it.
Also, I find that repeating the very very simple prayer, "Come, Lord Jesus" or "Jesus, I trust in you" can make a huge difference when I'm seeking that connection.
This is really new for me (all of it. I was raised Catholic and haven't been a part of a church of any kind for years), but would love some prayers for friends who are going through IVF. Ideally, that it all works out. But if it doesn't, to help them though what comes next - whatever that is.
I just had ankle surgery yesterday and will be travelling solo tomorrow.... So any and all prayers for clarity through the cloud of oxy and safety would be greatly appreciated.
What I’m walking through lately: intense, late-stage church burnout. I’ve been asking, “How much of my identity in Christ is rooted in my being a Leader? Will I be like the people in Matt. 7 who are doing all the ministry things—and showing signs of genuine effectiveness and spiritual life in those practices!—but Jesus says he doesn’t know them?” It’s a very humbling, and a bit terrifying, concept to reflect on.
Jesús regularly calls on folx to throw out their false idols - whether it’s money or whatever else they worship. Is there something you’re clinging to that you can discard and would actually make you feel more free?
Nicole/y'all!! I had an initial talk with Margot at In the Coracle about spiritual direction yesterday and it was SO GOOD. It felt so good. I've been feeling so much lately like I need some kind of Jesus-specific guidance and I think this is going to turn into a really good thing. Thanks for talking about your interest in it/experience, Nicole!!
Prayer always used to confuse me-- I was never totally sure what it was meant to do, or if I believed it really 'worked', and sometimes I thought it was selfish to ask God for things that I wanted. But in the last year or so, I've been feeling a much greater desire to pray for both myself and other people, pretty much all the time. I'm throwing up prayers willy-nilly. And I feel so uplifted when other people say that they are praying for me. I still don't really know what to make of it, but it's been a great comfort in some hard times, and amplified the good times. I wonder if it's the intense vulnerability of it that's so meaningful-- when I pray, I can't hide from the thing I really want.
I asked y'all for prayers last week, and I just wanted to say thank you -- the scary situation is resolved, in a good way, and I feel much less like flinging myself into traffic.
Hey y'all. Last week I asked for prayers, and it struck me while reading this thread that I actually feel SO MUCH better about the uncertainty in my life this week. I'm leaning into it and exploring and playing and generally having fun, so much so that I nearly forgot how stressed I was only one week ago! So that's just to say....thank you all so much for your prayers! They worked!
I'm a pastor who just started month two of a 3-month leave of absence because I realized in June that I needed to either ask for time off or I'd quit in a ball of flame and bad boundaries. (this isn't time 100 percent off -- I'm bivocational so I'm still at my 'civilian' job). But I've got 10 hours a week now that I should be doing something with that is healing and restorative, but mostly I'm playing Candy Crush. Prayers appreciated. I just feel so stuck much of the time.
Prayers for my brain: moving in my mid-40s has meant a lot of NEW and I guess I'd been used to being on auto-pilot for a lot of things (how to get to the grocery store; what time school ends for the kid). Auto-pilot is awesome! I miss it and as a result I'm turning into a spaced-out doofus. Making dumb mistakes driving; forgetting what day it is; etc. And I'm just exhausted all the time. And anxious. And I'm surrounded by nice Christian people, which makes me nervous, as I am a Christian of the saltier and cussier type. Thanks, y'all!
Jesus adjacent but not, you know, 1:1 related: I just sat and watched a mob of people dance to house music on their lunch hours and felt like weeping with at the joy and beauty on display. I wish I had joined in. I am considering whether some sort of formal declaration of sobriety has a place in my life and seeing and feeling how music and dancing can move people way, way outside the bar or club context felt like a sign.
Any good thoughts and vibes anyone can spare toward me are much appreciated, I'm getting my wisdom teeth removed Friday morning and starting to feel extremely nervous. There's something funky with the bottom two that pay cost me an extra $650 each, and my dad has said he can help me out but still not wild about the possibility. Just trying to stay positive and look at it as an excuse to lay in bed with my cat and eat ice cream for several days.
I remember it being pretty uncomfortable but I don't do well on intense pain meds (they give me stomach aches and make my head feel terrible and I get anxiety when I don't feel "in control"), and I found the pain to be very well managed with only Tylenol/Advil on rotation for a couple days. My jaw was sore for about two weeks but nothing excruciating. My husband had his out in his mid-twenties, only required Novocaine (instead of being put under) and was, no lie, eating pizza that night.
I moved to New York and it is a BLESSING and I saw The Oklahoma That Fucks and it BLESSED me but also messed me up, so life is going really well, but also.... I really need to find a church: I love community and ritual and proving to my parents that I still do "Christian-y" things. I just don't feel ready to look yet. So, thanks everyone for being part of my internet church, and pray I find some nice people who like communion and social justice.
I'm an ambivalent Catholic who attends Mass about once a year, but who regularly apologizes to God and Jesus for my various mistakes (as in "Sorry, Jesus, that I said that mean thing to myself about that lady's choice in shoes," etc.). I feel myself lately more strongly needing support and feel very vulnerable asking this, but would you mind saying a little prayer for me if you find the time? I've started a new medication for my autoimmune disorder, and over the past 15 years I've gone through so many of them - this is basically my last option for medication. I'm finding it really hard to get through this period of waiting to see if it will work. Right now my pain is controlled so well because of steroids, but I'm afraid of what will happen when I taper off them in a couple of weeks. I don't even know what to ask for. For the medication to work? For a general sense of peace and calmness?
Prayer and discernment needed. I am in my final year of seminary. My husband had to move to begin a job- I have the three kids by myself. I am working at a church and have multiple commitments on campus on top of classes. All of them are 'good' there is no easy thing to set aside. Potty training the youngest has me not sleeping well - plus the cold we all have from starting school again. I know this time will pass, I don't want to wish this year away. There is so much beauty, but I am drowning.
That is still so stressful! I hope you and your husband can figure out a way for you to get some help while he is gone. Praying you get some rest (physical and emotional) and congratulations on your last year!!
Are there any helpful folks on campus who might give you a hand once or twice a week? Bringing someone to soccer or watching the olders while you give the younger a bath, that kind of thing?
I should edit to add we've hired help and the kids are in school 9-5 which is more than I'd prefer. Thank you, yes getting help and asking for help are key
Yay for asking for help! It sounds really, really hard. And ugh, I know how you feel about them being in school 9-5. Mine are also in daycare or school all day and I feel lots of guilt about it. But, they come home really dirty, which makes me incredibly happy.
Hi all, am looking for a little guidance. I (a millennial Catholic) am happily dating & living with my boyfriend of 4+ years who is Jewish. My parents, who are incredibly devout Catholics, aren’t jazzed about us living together (generally supportive to us being together but make us sleep in separate rooms when we visit them), and I’m worried about tension as my boyfriend and I start talking about marriage. I don’t want to force him into a Catholic ceremony (i personally struggle a LOT with my Catholicism), and he doesn’t want to force me into a Jewish ceremony either. In an ideal world we would have a ceremony officiated by a loved one, but I don’t even want to start thinking about how upset my parents would be if I told them I wasn’t getting married in a Catholic Church. Does anyone have any advice/books/words of guidance/personal experiences here? I’ve been praying about this but am feeling lost.
My grandmother considered my marriage a "mixed" one because I grew up Catholic (I also struggle a LOT with my Catholicism) and my now-husband grew up Presbyterian (he has now come to realize he is an atheist). Anyhoo, my whole family was extremely concerned about the whole marriage-as-a-sacrament thing, they kept giving me names of priests that would marry us even though we didn't go to church, etc. My mom still holds out hope that I'll get my marriage blessed one day (I personally think that is such baloney and will therefore not be doing it). My mom has also sprinkled my baby with holy water and "baptized" her after I said I didn't think we'd be doing it because it seemed hypocritical, since I don't go to church and my husband is basically a non-believer anyway. I guess you could call me a secular Catholic. I love the pomp, I love the songs (I cry at ALL of them), and I still want there to be a God and a Jesus, but I really am not down with the Catholic church and its pedophile-harboring ways (among other terribly problematic things). Anyway, what I am SAYING is that I feel you and here's what I did: I was like, what if we got married in a place that *looks* like a church (small stone chapel in our town, a historic landmark that is not tied to any specific congregation, it just gets rented out for stuff like weddings and memorial services), and had my husband's uncle, who is a pastor (an amazing Hospice pastor who ministers to the dying...like honestly, he's the best) officiate the wedding, and we totally wrote our entire own ceremony that kind of MIMICKED a Catholic mass, just without Communion. So, we had two readings (a poem and a paragraph from some book) and a Gospel reading, songs were sprinkled throughout, we were in a very holy-looking place, and my husband's uncle (seriously, God bless him) RENTED some robes because he knew that my family was very ambivalent and would want something that looked churchy and official. My entire family was absolutely thrilled. THRILLED. I honestly did not think it would go over well but it DID. They were all like, wow, that was the nicest service I've been to in so long! I think they were very thankful for all the nods to my upbringing, while understanding that it just wasn't where we were at. Their approval totally shocked me. But if it worked for us, maybe it can work for you, too!
I'm impressed with the ingenuity of that! And also, hello from a fellow church-pomp-and-hymn loving person who has also not baptized her child for similar reasons. My husband calls himself a cultural Catholic, and while I dearly wanted my son to have a place to belong, religiously, we just couldn't bring ourselves to baptize given....everything.
Hi! Yeah, I baptized my first because I felt a lot of family pressure. We waited until she was almost a year old before I took the plunge and she was, by far, the oldest baby. But when the second one came around I was like, listen, I have to be real with myself and my family: I never did ANYTHING to follow up with the first one's baptism. We never went to church, we talk about God and Jesus in very vague terms (Oldest child: Mummy, is there a Heaven? Is that where Jesus lives? Me: Well, *some* people believe that, but nobody really knows!"), so it's like, who are we kidding? This time around, totally skipped the baptism. Definitely missed having a big fun party. Might still do Godparents because it's just nice? Not sure.
As the Jewish "God Mother" to two lovely children who basically have no religious faith, but could very technically be classified as vaguely Episcopalian I'd say do Godparents! It's fun for everybody! I get surrogate children who I can send home at the end of the day and they get another attached adult in their life! It's win-win!
Also... does someone care to explain the whole reason behind paying the church to baptize your child? My mom mentioned that a "donation" is customary and I refused to do it. I am not devout, so perhaps there's a good reason, but it doesn't seem all that different from selling Indulgences, which I'm pretty sure was stopped in like the 1500s.
I think it depends on when you are baptizing the child. Is it during Mass or is on a Saturday afternoon? If you are asking the priest to come to church to perform a ceremony, then I believe that you are supposed to give them a donation. If it is during the regular Sunday Mass, then I would not do it.
Thanks for the info. This particular church had a special baptism day when all the babies were scheduled. It was a Sunday afternoon, I think, in a special ceremony but it included like 6 other babies. It was 5 years ago, so I can't remember if I had the option to pick one or the other, but if I DID have the option, I would probably have chosen the special baptism day because I am always annoyed when something makes Mass (or any service) go longer than it needs to. But, I am a curmudgeon.
There are lots of options! My husband (Catholic) and I (Unitarian and therefore never baptized) and I were married in a non-sacramental (because of the never-baptized part) ceremony in a Catholic church, but found out *after* that it's possible to have your union blessed by a priest without getting married by one. There are lots of Catholic-approved options beyond a traditional mass, it just seems that no one ever talks about them!
I, a lukewarm-at-best Catholic, married my athiest husband in a Catholic wedding. The deacon who married us was very big on marriage being a sacrament which the husband and wife administer to each other, which meant it was very important that neither of us was forced into any aspect of the ceremony. For example, he recommended against doing a full mass because it would exclude my non-communion-taking husband. I would look at the nuts and bolts of the different religious options available to you and see if you can find something which includes both of you as equal partners. It used to be very common to have a secular ceremony and have a priest bless the marriage after, so consider that. If you like a Catholic ceremony, include old testament readings that are meaningful to him or which come from the Jewish ceremony (this might depend on your church - our deacon said we could deviate from the list of suggested readings within reason). See if you could have a priest and rabbi co-officiate. As with most aspects of wedding planning, most things that are sold as "traditional," such as a church ceremony with a full Mass, are actually fairly recent developments. If you dig a bit you may be able to find enough flexibility to make things work for you. Good luck!
So under canon law 1086, you could apply to the bishop for dispensation to have an interfaith marriage, but that requires you to assert that you will not convert to Judaism and you’ll do all in your power to ensure any children are raised Catholic. You may not feel able to promise that. Both my parents and my husband’s parents were Catholic-married, but we were not. We had a secular ceremony officiated by my father-in-law. My grandmother made some grumblings about it, but after the fact she agreed that it was a beautiful ceremony. I made it extra traditional-seeming by splurging in a massive veil. I struggle a lot with my Catholicism too and wasn’t a churchgoer at the time. There are some things that still trouble me after the fact. As someone in an “irregular marriage,” I’m not allowed to take communion or seek confession. If those are important to you, you may want to seek dispensation in advance. But for me, I’m content to sit with my discomfort. I don’t personally need the church’s approval for my marriage, and I can be a faithful person without being a perfect Catholic. But those were things I thought about long after our families had forgotten the ceremony. The best book I read before the wedding was “Emotionally Engaged: A Bride’s Guide to Surviving the Happiest Time of Her Life.” It helps with dealing with parental expectations and boundaries. You can email me if you like! I’m kellystopsworryingATgmail.
While there is a tonnnnnnnn of controversy and confusion surrounding it and I'm by no means an expert, Pope Francis's Amoris Laetitia states that Catholics in irregular marriages can consult with their local ecclesiastical authority (i.e. probably your priest) about taking the sacraments. Again, this totally depends on how strictly you want to interpret canon law! But there are options!
That is really nice to know!! Local priest in Texas was the one who told me to stop (I didn’t know and had been merrily taking the sacrament) but I’m about to move and maybe my new priest will feel differently.
Hello! Devout Catholic married to a devout atheist here. We had a beloved family friend, who is also an ordained Lutheran minister, officiate our wedding. All three of us wrote the script together so that it would include a couple of prayers for me and plenty of secularity for him. The next day, we got married in the Catholic church with a priest that we both trusted -- it was a tiny ceremony that my very very religious family could attend if they wanted and I handpicked the readings so that it would be as inclusive as possible. Not all priests will do this, but you can shop around! (my grandmother is shuddering somewhere but it's true)
Shopping around is key. Ultimately the Church wants to get every marriage squared away so you will be able to take the sacraments, and produce more babies for Jesus. Some priests will also let you fudge the Pre-Cana stuff and only do the minimum of meetings with them.
Years ago, my husband and I had our Episcopalian/Catholic wedding jointly officiated. My Catholic priest would not permit the Eucharist under the auspices of my church, so communion was Episcopalian, and I have to say that has always just really bothered me. In retrospect, I wish we'd done a joint service with no communion at ll. It seemed like a little thing until consecration, and then it didn't seem little any more.
Hey Eva, as an Episcopalian married to a Jewish man, I know right where you're coming from. Navigating our wedding ceremony was tricky for sure (and neither of us is even especially religious!). FWIW, we used a book on interfaith weddings to come up with our own interfaith ceremony, officiated by both an Episcopal priest and a rabbi. We wanted to get married in a house of worship and looked at a bunch of churches and synagogues before choosing a very plain-Jane (as in, no giant cross!) Christian church, which was happy to have us bring in a chuppah. Anyway, I recommend looking at some books on interfaith ceremonies to get ideas. Figuring all of this out can be tricky, but it will lead to some good conversations between you and your boyfriend and help you get to know each other better. Lots of luck to you.
No wisdom to share but as a millennial progressive-Christian-with-more-conservative-parents living with a Jewish atheist, probably for as long as we both shall live, I understand how that goes.
The Catholic church has many options for an approved marriage other than a full Mass. My friend was married by a family friend, and later got her marriage blessed by our priest. The key is to find the right priest who will guide you to a ceremony that will please you, your boyfriend, and your parents.
I personally went to a Catholic mass (half-mass) wedding with a rabbi doing the homily this year. It was a little odd, but beautiful. At the end of the day, Catholics and Jews believe that marriage is a covenant, which is what the rabbi preached about.
This might not be helpful but... they’re gonna really panic about baptism. If you don’t mind and don’t think it matters, you might negotiate where you agree to baptize your kids in the church.
Yes. They will. And if they are anything like my parents, they'll have their own tiny vial of holy water they can sprinkle on your child while they babysit, "just in case."
99% sure my mom's parents secretly baptized us. Which is still better than what my dad's Baptist mother did, which was just constantly tell me I was going to hell because I wasn't saved...
For real. Honestly, my grandma traumatized me. She single-handedly did more to turn me off to Christianity than anyone else. As an adult I can recognize that she did it out of a genuine fear for my soul and forgive her for it, but it doesn't change the fact that I spent years terrified of hell but also so terrified of her version of God that I wanted nothing to do with him.
I can already tell you're going to get a lot of feedback on this, but just my 2 cents -- I got married in the Catholic church, husband raised Southern Baptist, secular at the time of our wedding, we did pre-cana and it was pretty tame (we live in Chicago so even the churches lean very liberal)/actually helpful and good. I loved our wedding ceremony (no Communion and definitely no separate veneration of Mary on my part? I actually don't know what that is about, even?). I think if my husband had been raised in a much different tradition, or if his family had strong feelings either way, it would have been a lot more fraught so I feel you there. But I think, maybe, this is one of those situations where if you don't do it, you might regret it but if you do do it, you almost definitely won't regret it.
(This may be a bit jumbled; I'm trying to type this before I start crying over it at work)
I would love any resources this group has on reconciling homosexuality with Christianity, along with reconciling one's faith with the Bible not needing to be inerrant to be true (I read and loved Rachel Held Evans' "Inspired").
I have no issues with either of these things, and have done a great deal of my own research that has lead to my reconciliation with seeming contradictions, but my husband is struggling with the belief that being a Christian requires adherence to the Bible being either *completely* right or *completely* wrong, and if the former, it requires believing that homosexuality is a sin.
It's become a difficult topic in our marriage, particularly as I've become more involved with LGBTQIA groups and friends, and I am considering going to an Episcopalian church whose head priest is gay (he's incredible, and that church also has female priests who regularly teach and speak during services--I love it, even while missing my protestant hymns). If you have book or article recommendations that address this topic, or that of inerrancy, I would sincerely appreciate it.
Please pray for him; for us--he has other faith struggles that usually leave him utterly miserable and convicted that he is damned, and I do not know how to comfort him.
The books that I recommend for those thinking about LGBTQ folk and Christianity are: Justin Lee's book Torn, Matthew Vines' book God and the Gay Christian. They both grew up conservative and gay so their struggles are real. Justin Lee's is more narrative and Vines' book is more verse-by-verse, if that matters.
The documentary “Fish out of Water” goes through each bible verse that’s used against homosexuality and then explains why it actually doesn’t need to be translated or read that way at all (if that makes sense) - it’s my go-to reference because it really goes point by point refuting any homophobic uses of the Bible.
You might check out Q Christian Fellowship. Great people doing good work on these topics, and they have voices from different perspectives that are in my experience all very respectful and accepting of each other. Praying for you.
Shameless by Nadia Bolz Weber is great on sexual issues, and Rob Bell's What Is The Bible is great for "how should we treat the bible and figure out what it means for us today." Good luck as you navigate these issues. I pray your husband will find peace and comfort in the unchanging love of the God who made him (and who makes gay folks just as they are too).
Venting: So, after being extremely involved in church for pretty much his whole life, my husband came to the realization about 4 years ago that he doesn't really believe, well...any of it. Which is totally fine! What isn't totally fine is that his parents are EXTREMELY devout Evangelicals (started as Presbyterians but switched about a decade ago when that got too progressive). When they come to visit us, they usually stay for about 10-14 days, because it's kind of a hike from Kansas to where we live, and we have two kids they never see, so it it makes complete sense to stay for a while. Before my husband came to his big realization, he was going to a non-denominational Evangelical church and playing weekly in the band. He loves to play music, he liked his friends, he ran the youth band, etc. So, he always had some churchy stuff to talk about with his parents. After he realized he actually didn't believe any of it, we were basically lying and saying we were "looking for a church" whenever they came to visit. But, I've been feeling icky about it. I think it would be much healthier to just come out as an atheist to his parents, but he has no intention of doing so. He thinks they have already caught on and are avoiding unpleasant topics by just not bringing it up (his dad DID finally stop asking us to say blessings over our meals...we don't mind if he does it but we don't really feel comfortable doing it ourselves), and his family generally avoids talking about, well, pretty much everything. I don't know. The French/Italian Catholic in me just wants to have it out with these people and then move on, but his fear of their buttoned-up nature is preventing it. I just needed to vent because there is undeniable TENSION and it is driving me crazy!
I am so grateful for this space and for all of you!
I need some advice, if any of you would help! I grew up evangelical and only recently became hashtag exvangelical. I want to leave my current conservative evangelical bible study due to many theological, ethical, and political differences, but I still have some close friends in there with whom I don't want to burn bridges. How do I leave without being/sounding like a total asshole? (side note: this is also the kind of friend group that would invite you to lunch under false pretenses and then attack you with some "accountability" and "truth" and tbh the fear of that happening again has prevented me from leaving already)
This is a meandering mess of a question but would appreciate any recommendations :)
The fact that you are asking this proves that you will not leave in an asshole way, however I know that it is hard. When we left a group like this, we had something else in place with a new (progressive) church, and we said we were not able to do both and we were trying to commit to our new congregation. People were understanding (they didn't quite know how progressive our new church was or they would have been less understanding, I think) and it allowed us to leave fairly gracefully. I would suggest something like that - having something in place that they might understand that you are transferring to, if that makes sense.
Maggie, you have many paths possible. I am often times a path of least resistance if I don't want to cause a big scene. Using language familiar to the group that is honest about your path is an option. For example "I have been praying and discerning guidance from the Spirit and I am going to step away from this commitment to allow space in my life for God to bring new life/group/learning into my life"
Our very, very best friends came out of such an evangelical bible study. My husband now identifies as atheist and I am...well...who knows? Agnostic? I don't even know what I am. Anyway, we knew we couldn't keep going there, and once those friends moved away (to plant a new church, which is thriving) we had nothing keeping us there. We meet up with these friends still a few times a year, and last year we finally told them that we haven't been back to that church because really, it was only THEM that was keeping us there. We loved them and their friendship so MUCH, but not really the rest of the church. One of the things I valued (and still value!) about them as people is that even though they really, really want everyone to be saved, they really just love people and are really good at loving people where they are at, right here, right now. If your friends are good friends, hopefully they will understand that right now, you're just in a different space. I think you can still value their friendship, maintain a relationship, and go your separate ways religiously. I'm not sure we would have been able to do it so neatly if it hadn't been that they moved away, but they have been nothing but loving and understanding. I'm sure they pray for us all the time that we'll come back to church, and maybe one day I will, but they still come to birthdays and we go on family outings together and honestly, it wasn't as scary as I thought it would be, in the end.
I don't have advice, because when this happened to me I absolutely had to burn some bridges. I was in a Bible Study for medical spouses and after one of them had me over to her house to explain that Jesus basically wanted to give me a complete personality change, I realized I just couldn't keep going back. Sending love and support.
Random thought, up for discussion: I’m ex-Evangelical. Heaven is always what I end up holding onto from all my faith past lives and I still wholeheartedly believe in it.
It flusters me when other ex-evangelicals or progressive Christians don’t believe in an afterlife (and I know many of these)—like, as long as you aren’t problematic about hell, what do you have to lose?
Idk why this bothers me. Would love to hear varying perspectives here!
Hi! I tend to tell my students (I teach at a Christian university) that if they're following Jesus out of fear of hell or hope of heaven, then they're not really following Jesus. They hate that. :-) But what I mean is similar to the poet Rab'ia:
O my Lord,
if I worship you
from fear of hell, burn me in hell.
If I worship you
from hope of Paradise, bar me from its gates.
But if I worship you
for yourself alone, grant me then the beauty of your Face.
That may be it! And that's SO HARD to have after being evangelical. It's a relationship that's seen trauma, I imagine. Jesus is really my only comfort anymore, but it took a decade to let him back in. :-)
My view is more like The Great Divorce - everyone is welcome in God's presence but it might take longer for some people to choose it. So I believe in heaven but not really in hell. I don't really think this could be quite all there is.
Yeah, I'm heavily influenced by The Great Divorce. I have Thoughts and Theories about the details of the afterlife, but I kind of see them as fan fiction and settle into my "everything's going to be o.k." conviction as my core belief about what happens after death.
I don't actively believe or disbelieve in heaven -- I believe that, because God is good and because God loves beyond my (or anyone's) capacity to comprehend, it will be o.k. at the end.
Oh this made my heart so warm. What a lovely thought. And honestly probably closer to what I believe than a literal heaven, if I’m being honest with myself.
I'm an exvangelical progressive Christian and I don't think about the afterlife at all. I figure my potential for living out my faith in the world is right here and right now, and I can't convince myself to believe in anything even if I wanted to.
A lot of my friends are here. It’s good to consider this because I know I need to be able to empathize. For me that’s hard because life is shitty. I think when friends/folks say they don’t/can’t believe in the afterlife anymore, it feels like they’re saying “sorry if you feel like YOUR life is shitty and are looking for future comfort, mine’s just fine thanks” but that’s really my projection and not what they’re implying at all (I’m now realizing haha)
I feel like heaven would certainly be a lovely surprise! It's a great thing to have hope for. Resurrection, especially, is a gorgeous idea, for me. It's just so abstract and in-concrete that I can't really take hold of it right now.
I’m a progressive Christian, who grew up in that weird period in the nineties when previously middle of the road/progressive mainline Presbyterian churches suddenly Evangelicaled for all they were worth. It turns out in that at no point in my life of faith has Heaven ever been particularly important to me (this hasn’t stopped me from imagining my own perfect afterlife). This horrifies my best friend, who keenly looks forward to being reunited with her loved ones. I mean, I’d like there to be a heaven, but it’s not Important to me the way the Incarnation is. God with us! Here in this pain and mess!
I’m a Puddleglum Christian, I suppose. Maybe I’ve believed a pack of nonsensical myths for the last thirty-odd years. It could be. But I’ll keep trying to love the people around me with the love I believe I recieve from God. I’ll try to participate in the work of reconciliation and healing that I believe Jesus calls us to, even though I’m not particularly good at it.
If at the end of all of this, I’m compost? That will have been enough.
I'm COMPLETELY obsessed with the afterlife but currently feel really open as far as what it might look like. Traditional/evangelical idea of heaven where everyone is sort of an identity-less blob and we don't know our loved ones and all we do is sing?...is not for me. But I do believe there will be a heaven or something like it. I believe there's something after this.
I've had really interesting discussions lately about what will and won't be true there, and how many times we "live" and whether our souls existed before us in some other liminal space...a little woo-woo, probably, and I don't have any firm beliefs on any of it, but I LOVE talking about it. (And love media that deals with questions of the afterlife/other lives; RIP The OA)
This is really new for me (all of it. I was raised Catholic and haven't been a part of a church for any kind for years), but would love some prayers for friends who are going through IVF. Ideally, that it all works out. But if it doesn't, to help them though what comes next - whatever that is.
My cool pastor asked me to consider mentoring a confirmation student. I have a lot of experience with kids and my volunteer opportunity fell through. Thoughts?
I saw that Lin-Manuel Miranda said he was reading RHE's last book (Inspired). How cool is that? (Let's dream of him writing a hip-hop musical about the Bible now.)
I stan Jesus Christ Superstar so I am here for this.
I’m whatever about Andrew Lloyd Weber but extremely here for JCSS
This makes me happy to hear. I finally decided to start reading Inspired a few weeks ago but haven’t been able to get through the first few pages because I’m crying too hard. Still so sad, still so angry.
JENNIFER2 min
I don’t really know how this all works, but if I could just get some prayers that Things will get better, I’d be so grateful. It’s just been one awful thing after another for over three years now, mostly with my health. I know this isn’t how this works, but I wish someone else would carry the load for even a day. I could definitely use the positive thoughts and prayers. Thanks.
One of my understandings of the way prayer works is the Buddhist concept of "tonglen" and visualizing taking up the pain of another and sending them peace. I will be trying to lift your burden in my heart, and sending you peace.
Praying for you.
Praying that your heart will be at peace, and that life will calm down for you. I'm so sorry you're going through a shitty period, and hope it will end soon.
Thank you both. At this point I’ll need all I can get.
Making friends in your thirties: how do people do it? Can someone please tell me. Because my friend group is spread across the country and those who are local are wrapped up in career stuff (mostly young lawyers). It suddenly hit me that I feel super lonely for the first time in my life and it is WILD.
(And to tie this in with Jesus themes: I remember a meme somewhere that said the real miracle was that Jesus was a dude in his 30’s with 12 close friends who hung out all the time.)
I remember seeing this tweet and laughing. I feel this. My close friends with years under our belts are scattered to the four winds. Marco Polo has weirdly been this game changing way to stay connected and remember that I really am likable and have friends?
Throw a toddler in the mix who laughs in the face of plans, and it's so so hard to connect in person, especially as childless local friends have kind of stepped back/ghosted.
I do have a couple of groups (who still only struggle to get together every couple of months but LIFE) centered on workshopping and sharing poems, so the old adage about finding people with similar interests feels true. I took the month of social media in August and it made me confront my real loneliness in a way that wasn't pleasant but was good. If it helps, I know many, many of us have this struggle.
Speaking of religion, even though it feels like a family in some of the bad ways (claustrophobic, crotchety uncles, obligatory get-togethers), church helps too.
I was just thinking about how nice it is when kids get a little older and you don't have to be like "we can probably get together for this 90 minute window between naps and meltdown"
Long time listener, first time caller...definitely did not anticipate my lack of friends to be the thing that prompted me to comment. If any of y'all are in central Texas, hit me up! I moved here almost a year ago for my first big-kid job and still don't have any friends outside of work. Some of it is down to my tendency towards hermit-ness, some of it is just because it's hard. Solidarity, y'all.
Hi Beth! I'm in Austin (though moving away shortly), but I know a few Cliffe Wives in Austin and San Antonio if you'd like some friend-matchmaking!
Kelly! That would be awesome! What's a good way for me to get in touch?
My email is kellystopsworrying@gmail. I’m traveling this week but I’ll respond when I can!
HAHAHAHA yes love this
This is such a classic millennial answer but: the internet!! I've stopped using facebook to catch up with people I actually grew up with, and I've joined all kinds of groups - fan groups for bands or podcasts, some of which have actual location specific groups. I'm not even a rabid fan of any of these things, but I have made real life/help me move out on a Tuesday friends through them.
I know you’re talking locally but I am always looking for online friends (that goes for all of y’all!) Twitter: @katiesays_. I’ll follow you back, let’s be pals :)
@annaline_39 , pleased to meet ya!
@librarianatrix here!
If you are religious, church can be a really good place for this. You may have to visit several. Find one you generally like, and then ask about "life groups", "small groups" "Bible studies" etc. Once you're in a church you like, you may STILL have to check out 3 or 4 such groups to find a group you like.
The reason we make friends more easily when we are young is that we see the same people frequently and share our day-to-day experiences with them. If you can see the same people on Sunday and then again during the week, it will be hard to not make friends with them.
That's true, church is kind of a built in social group. We're even carpooling to our out of boundaries school with someone from school--the kids are even in the same class.
I came to this conclusion recently! If anyone has church suggestions in the LA area I’m all ears. Central LA or Westwood areas preferred, but I’m fairly flexible and close to a lot of public transit
I can't find in your thread if you're looking for a particular denomination, but if you're not and are a) into very crunchy no-dogma church and b) cool with long periods of silence, I just started attending the Quaker Meeting in Pasadena and they're really lovely and welcoming. (Also, I'm new-ish to LA and trying to make friends, if you want to grab coffee or a drink sometime)
This is so corny, but taking classes or joining groups really works in finding friends! I've found so many wonderful friends through dance classes... we got to know each other by f'ing up our routines and laughing and supporting each other as we learned. (It helps that there's a great bar next door to our studio for after-class drinks.) I'm also meaning to join a hiking meetup group, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
Also, remember that your local friends are in a super-busy time of their lives as they establish their careers, but it won't last forever. They will settle into their work, as will you, and you'll find time for each other again. I've been there and I know it's hard, but having some patience as your friendship dynamics change will make you feel a little more sane about it all.
Where do you live? I am really good at it and my church has had this as their theme for the past year.
LA! I’m planning a friend reunion of sorts soon, because I actually do have school friends here, we’ve just gotten blown about by work stuff and my besties from law school are sadly in other cities. If you know of cool churches in these parts I’d be really interested.
I am also in LA! ...Want to grab coffee? :D (Check out St. Luke's Episcopalian in Monrovia--the folks there are truly marvelous.)
I have a weekly meetup with my friends where we pretend to watch the Bachelor but really just eat cheese and talk. It’s a regularly scheduled but low pressure way to regularly see people and invite new people in.
Yes! I was thinking some kind of low key, potluck-ish ritual could be good too
Listening! I live in Orange County but I really miss the feeling of a church community.
I'm having to make new friends in my 40s, as we moved across the country. It is HARD. I have had some luck with Meet Up though--people post activities they like to do and meet up places. It's like dating for friends. I've done some amazing meditation hikes as a result. Best of luck. It's hard.
I can guess but how do you definite "meditation hike?"
A group here called Inner Rebel offers free hikes with a guided meditation at the top. My very loving and bossy best friend located their Meet Up and made me go. :-)
(who knows why my picture is this wild one, but I digress). Friends in 30's!! Certainly it depends where you live and what the "scene" is like, but things that helped me were social sports leagues and church. I play kickball and softball, have done dodgeball and bowling in the past. It took me a few different tries (aka a couple of seasons) but I found an amazing group of people who are now my closest friends, and, to tie in the religion, I will be getting ordained (online, wooo) and officiating a low key Godparent service for one of my friends in the spring. If sports don't appeal to you, I keep telling my sister to look into local art classes (sewing, ceramics, pottery, etc) or, if you're into it, Junior League is another option - with the benefit of service opportunities.
Church is obviously religious in it's own right, but I found a church with a) a younger pastor and b) an active 20's & 30's group that held potlucks once a month. We made a concerted effort to dedicate ourselves to connecting more, so we have a groupme group and are trying harder to schedule more "for fun" things.
Hope this is helpful!
I was away from my city for a year and haven’t regularly attended church since coming back (nearly) a year ago. For a mix of reasons, some legit (complicated feels), some kind of weenieish (worry that it would change the dynamic in my relationship), and some just lazy (I like my bed on Sunday mornings).
Annnyway, finally talked to bf about how I was having a rough time lately and he was kind and supportive about church stuff when I said that I wanted to make that a more regular part of my life again. Which, like, my ~spiritual life~ is not at his discretion! But also the thought of changing the relationship scared me. Truly, I am a martyr for the cross lol.
So I'll be straight up with you: it took me foooorever to get back to church. Like from confirmation (when my mom stopped making me go) to about two years ago, around 30. Saturn's return, maybe? Is that blasphemous to mention in the same conversation? Anyway, I picked my church because it was Episcopal and close to my house, and I really lucked out. I moved within the past year, and now I am about 14 blocks from church instead of 4, and well, now I only seem to make it to the 20's & 30's stuff, but not actual church. I was very interested in the community aspect of church, and have been honest with the group that I don't really feel Jesus. They all seem to have stories about feeling connected to God, etc and I just...don't. I think it would be nice, but there hasn't been a *moment*.
Re: changing dynamics...I have found that sharing with friends and possible love interests that I go to church/care about my religion is scary. I feel that I approach religion in a specific way, and that way is definitively not the overarching, bible thumping narrative I think many people have. I feel like I want them to KNOW I'm not like that.
Making friends as an adult is so hard! I'm struggling to make local friends, too -- I found a weekly knitting group to go to, and that's nice. Do you have a hobby that lends itself to meeting up with other people?
Cliche on Jesus Wednesday, but church (one with people my own age) is where I find people outside of work and theatre.
My other plan is community theater, lol! I really want to get into screenwriting and playwriting, but they’re pretty solitary pursuits and I figured local theater stuff would be a good option to re-enter that realm.
It's a good plan! Maybe look for a local writing group or community class?
(But with new friends, specifically new friend who are NOT LAWYERS.)
I wonder about this all the time! My closest friends are from growing up but when we moved 12 hours away SIX years ago I didn’t realize how hard it would be to make friends. I’ve been here six years and still feel rather lonely. I bought tickets to see The Indigo Girls with the local symphony not realizing my husband is on call and unable to go and....I feel so sad because I don’t really have anyone local to invite
Invite someone! Anyone you can find! It's like a friend date. As a single person, I always buy two tickets to things and then just find someone to go. Sometimes they really like the thing, but other times, they just want to do something. Sometimes, we really connect, and see eachother more after. Sometimes, we are just buddies for that night. I would just start asking anyone whose name you know that you might theoretically like to spend an hour with!
"Sometimes they really like the thing, but other times, they just want to do something"- so true!
I have made some friends meeting up with local people who I originally only knew through Twitter!
Ah great idea! I'm really not sure what to do about my desire for a community of faith (without knowing what that faith is) and also just having friends, but volunteering is a v. v. good start.
I am still dealing with my son's attempted suicide, and I'm looking for a way to get involved in the mental health care crisis in this country. Summary of the three weeks I've spent grieving and terrified: 99 percent of us can afford care that is subpar and extremely hard to get. One percent of us can sell our first born children to procure something that may be better. I just wrote an $18,000 check, borrowed from retirement, that will cover FOUR weeks of treatment for my son, who is high-risk for repeat attempts. They recommend SIX MONTHS. Any similar experiences/ideas for getting involved?
P.S. this is about Jesus. Jesus would not be happy with this reality. Jesus would want us to be better.
Donna, I'm so sorry to hear that you and your family are going through this. You're right; the way our country treats mental health is shameful. Your son is lucky to have you on his side.
You mentioned wanting to get involved in the mental health crisis somehow. One way is by volunteering with the Crisis Text Line, a free 24/7 service that lets users confidentially text with trained crisis counselors (of which I'm one). I find it very rewarding. They train you, and they ask that you volunteer 4 hours a week for a year. You make your own schedule and do it all from home, whenever you want. Here's more info: https://www.crisistextline.org/volunteer
I've been dealing with a very similar issue with my younger brother. It has been horrible and awful and exhausting and I wish I had advice based on my experience, but it has been similar to yours. My mom's entire wages for her part-time teaching job for a year went to his treatment at a program (which he opted to do for only a month, even though he needed more, because he is legally adult and he can walk away). Luckily my sister works in wilderness therapy so she has been able to talk to contacts at different programs and know the ropes a little better, but it is hard. I'll pray for your son when I pray for my brother!
I will pray for your brother. My son wants to recover from depression, but doesn't want to live if he can't, which is just a horrible thing to know. We think we can borrow enough $$ for three months of treatment; we're being told six is what he needs. And WE'RE lucky. I used to be a criminal defense attorney; now I know why so many folks end up in THAT system needing treatment. Just heartbreaking.
NAMI is great. I also believe the easiest way out of this is for primary care physicians to prescribe anti-depressants in most cases. (There aren’t enough psychiatrists for everyone but not everyone needs a psychiatrist.) so I preach that Gospel as often as I can. But mostly NAMI.
Want to second the NAMI rec!
Like a PCP is not enough for your kid, but it is for so many people who postpone treatment because they don’t know.
I agree. And, if/when he is better, a PCP might actually give him more individualized attention and monitoring than he gets from psychs/dispensaries.
I am so sorry. What you are going through is brutally unjust and hard to navigate.
My big Jesus news is that I'm going to be a deacon (caretaking ministry) at my church! Frankly, I'm constantly shocked that they don't ask me to refrain from mentioning my association with them in public, let alone asking me to participate in some sort of ministry!
Oooh!! Congrats!
I have another job interview this afternoon. I also applied to Divinity School and have been accepted (with 75% scholarship - more should be on the way and will dictate if it’s a real option). I’d love prayers for discernment!
woohoo! I'm in my 3rd year of my Mdiv, craziest life shift - hard - wouldn't trade it. prayers for discernment, try it on like a coat and wear it around...how does it fit?
Just started my first year of the Mdiv! Praying for you.
Also when did Jesus Wednesday start because I think it’s y’alls fault that I applied.
Also can y’all tweet #JesusWednesday so I can follow you.
YAYYY. Every now and then I get wistful about going to div school, but I have no idea what I'd do with it other than just keep reading thick books about the Bible.
If they’ll pay me to do that instead of going to my quasi job I hate, sure I’ll learn Ancient Greek.
good luck! hope it works out!
Pinterest board on MDiv https://www.pinterest.com/nyashajunior/highered-mdiv/
For the sake of my husband and his relationship with his kiddos, we are gonna need to move to the town where they live with their mom. But that means leaving behind a church that I LOVE pastoring. And struggling to find a church to serve in a community that’s far from progressive. I need prayers to find work, for my son who will be uprooted, and for all the change on the horizon.
Ugh. My boo has a kid and this is a top concern for me. Thinking of you!
Praying!
Will keep you in my prayers. Moving is so tough (did it three years ago)!
Hey! Nicole I just wanted to let you know that a Jesus Weds from July resulted in me connecting with another lovely commented named Sharon about my husband's job search (he recently left his role as a pastor and is looking for non-ministry roles for now) and her husband provided some great career coaching based on his similar experience! I thought that was really neat. He's still searching, so continued prayers would be appreciated! This summer has been a strange transition to no longer being a pastor's family, and it was an emotional departure (we really did love our church) but the reduction is stress was INSTANTANEOUS. I have a spouse who sleeps again!
Job leads in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area also appreciated!
I messaged the other Monica (from the non Jesus days) about a piece of silly jewelry I inherited and she was so nice to take time and share her expertise. I love this community.
Jesus news here is that I LOVE all of my divinity school classes and have made some friends of faith already! The plan now is to find a new spiritual director in my new town and figure out how I can do some service/liturgical work around my job and courses.
I might start next month! Can we be friends?
Yes! Div school support network! Anyone else in a similar place?
Adding to the people who are reconnecting with their faith. I (logical rational type that I was who couldn't possibly believe in anything that wasn't SCIENCE) lost my faith at about 16, although it was pretty tenuous even before that. Over the last year I've started to feel more of a connection to... something, and as time's gone on that something has slowly become God (I'm British, so saying "Jesus" still feels really weird, but yeah, that). Anyway, thanks in no small part to the reading Nicole has recommended in the past I've got to the point where I've felt able to come to terms with how I'm feeling, and what it means. I started attending a church near my house and it's just been completely wonderful. A small, lively congregation with a disproportionately fantastic choir that has just welcomed me wholeheartedly. My heart feels so full.
My boyfriend is really struggling with it, though. He's been a committed atheist for ages and is finding it hard to adapt to me sliding into believing something that he not only doesn't believe, but doesn't like. He's slowly, slowly getting more used to it, I think, but I feel like we've got a lot of processing and negotiating ahead of us, and I feel a bit overwhelmed.
I had this happen as well. We navigated it the best we could, but we eventually felt it was just a barrier we couldn't push past. I decided I wanted someone to love me for my faith, not in spite of it. It was very, very tough, but ... **gestures vaguely** so is life.
Figuring this out w/ my partner now. FWIW he had us watch Vicar of Dibley, which seems promising, but it’s still nerve racking!
Prayer request for a close family friend who took a bad fall this weekend. He sustained a serious head injury, and he's now in the hospital, intubated, but the path forward will likely be difficult. His wife is by his side, and his two young children started school this week.
Asking for prayers for me and my family. My beloved father died from cancer three weeks ago. He had been slowly declining but took a bad turn suddenly, and so it still felt like he died very quickly, if that makes sense. He was also my business partner - just the two of us in charge - and having to continue working without him is almost unbearable. Today is just a bad day and I feel so depressed and useless and I just want my dad back 😭
Sending love in this time of loss.
Praying for you and your family.
Hi everyone! I'm not really sure how this works to be honest! This is my first time actually posting on Jesus Wednesday, but I've been reading along for a while now.
I was raised Baptist, but left the church at 16 when I came out as a lesbian. But these last couple of years have been difficult, and I've found myself missing that connection to God. What are some of your favorite books or podcasts about Jesus, and reconnecting with him and Our Father? It's been about 10 years since I stepped foot in a church so I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed as I wade back in. Thanks!!
I am enjoying "Take This Bread" by Sara Miles! Beautiful story and she is a lesbian also who developed a faith in her 30s.
This is such a good book!
Seconding this one! It was a life-changing read for me.
Seconding Rachel Held Evans' books - her books got me out of a dark place in my faith. I also just finished Shameless: A Sexual Reformation by Nadia Bolz-Weber and loved it, if you're looking for something specifically about sexuality!
Shameless was so good!
I recommend the works of Richard Rohr (books, podcast, email newsletter)
For me, Anne Lamott's first autobiography gave me permission to both love Jesus and be my messy, dirty self. Plus literally everything everyone recommended here.
Yes, same!
What connected/resonated for you when you were younger? What does a connection to God look like for you? Have you been more "head" or "heart" in your faith life?
Ooo I love this question!
I know a lot of people who like The Liturgists podcast. All of Rachel Held Evans's books are great.
I really really recommend Waiting on God by Simone Weil. She was never baptized but loved Jesus with her whole heart and had a connection to God that was completely remarkable. Her love is so ardent and clear that you can't help but be swept away by it.
Also, I find that repeating the very very simple prayer, "Come, Lord Jesus" or "Jesus, I trust in you" can make a huge difference when I'm seeking that connection.
This was exactly the kind of info I came here looking for (a day late) so thank you for asking this question!
Maybe this is too obvious but Traveling Mercies by Anne Lamott was very helpful for me when I was shifting from my fundamentalist upbringing.
Same.
This is really new for me (all of it. I was raised Catholic and haven't been a part of a church of any kind for years), but would love some prayers for friends who are going through IVF. Ideally, that it all works out. But if it doesn't, to help them though what comes next - whatever that is.
I just had ankle surgery yesterday and will be travelling solo tomorrow.... So any and all prayers for clarity through the cloud of oxy and safety would be greatly appreciated.
Let people help you! You deserve it.
I'm working on something about a depressed, lonely (and hot) Catholic priest. So, I feel like it's fitting that Jesus Wednesday is a little late.
Hey everyone!
What I’m walking through lately: intense, late-stage church burnout. I’ve been asking, “How much of my identity in Christ is rooted in my being a Leader? Will I be like the people in Matt. 7 who are doing all the ministry things—and showing signs of genuine effectiveness and spiritual life in those practices!—but Jesus says he doesn’t know them?” It’s a very humbling, and a bit terrifying, concept to reflect on.
Love you all!
Jesús regularly calls on folx to throw out their false idols - whether it’s money or whatever else they worship. Is there something you’re clinging to that you can discard and would actually make you feel more free?
Nicole/y'all!! I had an initial talk with Margot at In the Coracle about spiritual direction yesterday and it was SO GOOD. It felt so good. I've been feeling so much lately like I need some kind of Jesus-specific guidance and I think this is going to turn into a really good thing. Thanks for talking about your interest in it/experience, Nicole!!
I worked with Margot too and she is the best. Thank you Nicole for bringing her to us.
Prayer always used to confuse me-- I was never totally sure what it was meant to do, or if I believed it really 'worked', and sometimes I thought it was selfish to ask God for things that I wanted. But in the last year or so, I've been feeling a much greater desire to pray for both myself and other people, pretty much all the time. I'm throwing up prayers willy-nilly. And I feel so uplifted when other people say that they are praying for me. I still don't really know what to make of it, but it's been a great comfort in some hard times, and amplified the good times. I wonder if it's the intense vulnerability of it that's so meaningful-- when I pray, I can't hide from the thing I really want.
I asked y'all for prayers last week, and I just wanted to say thank you -- the scary situation is resolved, in a good way, and I feel much less like flinging myself into traffic.
Flinging yourself in traffic is almost never the answer. 💖
Hey y'all. Last week I asked for prayers, and it struck me while reading this thread that I actually feel SO MUCH better about the uncertainty in my life this week. I'm leaning into it and exploring and playing and generally having fun, so much so that I nearly forgot how stressed I was only one week ago! So that's just to say....thank you all so much for your prayers! They worked!
I'm a pastor who just started month two of a 3-month leave of absence because I realized in June that I needed to either ask for time off or I'd quit in a ball of flame and bad boundaries. (this isn't time 100 percent off -- I'm bivocational so I'm still at my 'civilian' job). But I've got 10 hours a week now that I should be doing something with that is healing and restorative, but mostly I'm playing Candy Crush. Prayers appreciated. I just feel so stuck much of the time.
I mean, honestly candy crush can be pretty restorative?
Prayers for my brain: moving in my mid-40s has meant a lot of NEW and I guess I'd been used to being on auto-pilot for a lot of things (how to get to the grocery store; what time school ends for the kid). Auto-pilot is awesome! I miss it and as a result I'm turning into a spaced-out doofus. Making dumb mistakes driving; forgetting what day it is; etc. And I'm just exhausted all the time. And anxious. And I'm surrounded by nice Christian people, which makes me nervous, as I am a Christian of the saltier and cussier type. Thanks, y'all!
"Spaced Out Doofus" is 100% my norm :)
Can relate to most of this haha
Do you live in Idaho? Come save me! HA!
Jesus adjacent but not, you know, 1:1 related: I just sat and watched a mob of people dance to house music on their lunch hours and felt like weeping with at the joy and beauty on display. I wish I had joined in. I am considering whether some sort of formal declaration of sobriety has a place in my life and seeing and feeling how music and dancing can move people way, way outside the bar or club context felt like a sign.
Any good thoughts and vibes anyone can spare toward me are much appreciated, I'm getting my wisdom teeth removed Friday morning and starting to feel extremely nervous. There's something funky with the bottom two that pay cost me an extra $650 each, and my dad has said he can help me out but still not wild about the possibility. Just trying to stay positive and look at it as an excuse to lay in bed with my cat and eat ice cream for several days.
I remember it being pretty uncomfortable but I don't do well on intense pain meds (they give me stomach aches and make my head feel terrible and I get anxiety when I don't feel "in control"), and I found the pain to be very well managed with only Tylenol/Advil on rotation for a couple days. My jaw was sore for about two weeks but nothing excruciating. My husband had his out in his mid-twenties, only required Novocaine (instead of being put under) and was, no lie, eating pizza that night.
I moved to New York and it is a BLESSING and I saw The Oklahoma That Fucks and it BLESSED me but also messed me up, so life is going really well, but also.... I really need to find a church: I love community and ritual and proving to my parents that I still do "Christian-y" things. I just don't feel ready to look yet. So, thanks everyone for being part of my internet church, and pray I find some nice people who like communion and social justice.
I'm an ambivalent Catholic who attends Mass about once a year, but who regularly apologizes to God and Jesus for my various mistakes (as in "Sorry, Jesus, that I said that mean thing to myself about that lady's choice in shoes," etc.). I feel myself lately more strongly needing support and feel very vulnerable asking this, but would you mind saying a little prayer for me if you find the time? I've started a new medication for my autoimmune disorder, and over the past 15 years I've gone through so many of them - this is basically my last option for medication. I'm finding it really hard to get through this period of waiting to see if it will work. Right now my pain is controlled so well because of steroids, but I'm afraid of what will happen when I taper off them in a couple of weeks. I don't even know what to ask for. For the medication to work? For a general sense of peace and calmness?
That sounds incredibly disheartening. Praying that this medication works and that your medical care is effective and affordable.
Thank you :)
Prayer and discernment needed. I am in my final year of seminary. My husband had to move to begin a job- I have the three kids by myself. I am working at a church and have multiple commitments on campus on top of classes. All of them are 'good' there is no easy thing to set aside. Potty training the youngest has me not sleeping well - plus the cold we all have from starting school again. I know this time will pass, I don't want to wish this year away. There is so much beauty, but I am drowning.
That is still so stressful! I hope you and your husband can figure out a way for you to get some help while he is gone. Praying you get some rest (physical and emotional) and congratulations on your last year!!
Are there any helpful folks on campus who might give you a hand once or twice a week? Bringing someone to soccer or watching the olders while you give the younger a bath, that kind of thing?
I should edit to add we've hired help and the kids are in school 9-5 which is more than I'd prefer. Thank you, yes getting help and asking for help are key
Yay for asking for help! It sounds really, really hard. And ugh, I know how you feel about them being in school 9-5. Mine are also in daycare or school all day and I feel lots of guilt about it. But, they come home really dirty, which makes me incredibly happy.
Hi all, am looking for a little guidance. I (a millennial Catholic) am happily dating & living with my boyfriend of 4+ years who is Jewish. My parents, who are incredibly devout Catholics, aren’t jazzed about us living together (generally supportive to us being together but make us sleep in separate rooms when we visit them), and I’m worried about tension as my boyfriend and I start talking about marriage. I don’t want to force him into a Catholic ceremony (i personally struggle a LOT with my Catholicism), and he doesn’t want to force me into a Jewish ceremony either. In an ideal world we would have a ceremony officiated by a loved one, but I don’t even want to start thinking about how upset my parents would be if I told them I wasn’t getting married in a Catholic Church. Does anyone have any advice/books/words of guidance/personal experiences here? I’ve been praying about this but am feeling lost.
My grandmother considered my marriage a "mixed" one because I grew up Catholic (I also struggle a LOT with my Catholicism) and my now-husband grew up Presbyterian (he has now come to realize he is an atheist). Anyhoo, my whole family was extremely concerned about the whole marriage-as-a-sacrament thing, they kept giving me names of priests that would marry us even though we didn't go to church, etc. My mom still holds out hope that I'll get my marriage blessed one day (I personally think that is such baloney and will therefore not be doing it). My mom has also sprinkled my baby with holy water and "baptized" her after I said I didn't think we'd be doing it because it seemed hypocritical, since I don't go to church and my husband is basically a non-believer anyway. I guess you could call me a secular Catholic. I love the pomp, I love the songs (I cry at ALL of them), and I still want there to be a God and a Jesus, but I really am not down with the Catholic church and its pedophile-harboring ways (among other terribly problematic things). Anyway, what I am SAYING is that I feel you and here's what I did: I was like, what if we got married in a place that *looks* like a church (small stone chapel in our town, a historic landmark that is not tied to any specific congregation, it just gets rented out for stuff like weddings and memorial services), and had my husband's uncle, who is a pastor (an amazing Hospice pastor who ministers to the dying...like honestly, he's the best) officiate the wedding, and we totally wrote our entire own ceremony that kind of MIMICKED a Catholic mass, just without Communion. So, we had two readings (a poem and a paragraph from some book) and a Gospel reading, songs were sprinkled throughout, we were in a very holy-looking place, and my husband's uncle (seriously, God bless him) RENTED some robes because he knew that my family was very ambivalent and would want something that looked churchy and official. My entire family was absolutely thrilled. THRILLED. I honestly did not think it would go over well but it DID. They were all like, wow, that was the nicest service I've been to in so long! I think they were very thankful for all the nods to my upbringing, while understanding that it just wasn't where we were at. Their approval totally shocked me. But if it worked for us, maybe it can work for you, too!
I'm impressed with the ingenuity of that! And also, hello from a fellow church-pomp-and-hymn loving person who has also not baptized her child for similar reasons. My husband calls himself a cultural Catholic, and while I dearly wanted my son to have a place to belong, religiously, we just couldn't bring ourselves to baptize given....everything.
Hi! Yeah, I baptized my first because I felt a lot of family pressure. We waited until she was almost a year old before I took the plunge and she was, by far, the oldest baby. But when the second one came around I was like, listen, I have to be real with myself and my family: I never did ANYTHING to follow up with the first one's baptism. We never went to church, we talk about God and Jesus in very vague terms (Oldest child: Mummy, is there a Heaven? Is that where Jesus lives? Me: Well, *some* people believe that, but nobody really knows!"), so it's like, who are we kidding? This time around, totally skipped the baptism. Definitely missed having a big fun party. Might still do Godparents because it's just nice? Not sure.
As the Jewish "God Mother" to two lovely children who basically have no religious faith, but could very technically be classified as vaguely Episcopalian I'd say do Godparents! It's fun for everybody! I get surrogate children who I can send home at the end of the day and they get another attached adult in their life! It's win-win!
Also... does someone care to explain the whole reason behind paying the church to baptize your child? My mom mentioned that a "donation" is customary and I refused to do it. I am not devout, so perhaps there's a good reason, but it doesn't seem all that different from selling Indulgences, which I'm pretty sure was stopped in like the 1500s.
I think it depends on when you are baptizing the child. Is it during Mass or is on a Saturday afternoon? If you are asking the priest to come to church to perform a ceremony, then I believe that you are supposed to give them a donation. If it is during the regular Sunday Mass, then I would not do it.
Thanks for the info. This particular church had a special baptism day when all the babies were scheduled. It was a Sunday afternoon, I think, in a special ceremony but it included like 6 other babies. It was 5 years ago, so I can't remember if I had the option to pick one or the other, but if I DID have the option, I would probably have chosen the special baptism day because I am always annoyed when something makes Mass (or any service) go longer than it needs to. But, I am a curmudgeon.
There are lots of options! My husband (Catholic) and I (Unitarian and therefore never baptized) and I were married in a non-sacramental (because of the never-baptized part) ceremony in a Catholic church, but found out *after* that it's possible to have your union blessed by a priest without getting married by one. There are lots of Catholic-approved options beyond a traditional mass, it just seems that no one ever talks about them!
Also, congrats and good luck! Your ability to navigate things like this together will only serve you well post-wedding. :-)
I, a lukewarm-at-best Catholic, married my athiest husband in a Catholic wedding. The deacon who married us was very big on marriage being a sacrament which the husband and wife administer to each other, which meant it was very important that neither of us was forced into any aspect of the ceremony. For example, he recommended against doing a full mass because it would exclude my non-communion-taking husband. I would look at the nuts and bolts of the different religious options available to you and see if you can find something which includes both of you as equal partners. It used to be very common to have a secular ceremony and have a priest bless the marriage after, so consider that. If you like a Catholic ceremony, include old testament readings that are meaningful to him or which come from the Jewish ceremony (this might depend on your church - our deacon said we could deviate from the list of suggested readings within reason). See if you could have a priest and rabbi co-officiate. As with most aspects of wedding planning, most things that are sold as "traditional," such as a church ceremony with a full Mass, are actually fairly recent developments. If you dig a bit you may be able to find enough flexibility to make things work for you. Good luck!
So under canon law 1086, you could apply to the bishop for dispensation to have an interfaith marriage, but that requires you to assert that you will not convert to Judaism and you’ll do all in your power to ensure any children are raised Catholic. You may not feel able to promise that. Both my parents and my husband’s parents were Catholic-married, but we were not. We had a secular ceremony officiated by my father-in-law. My grandmother made some grumblings about it, but after the fact she agreed that it was a beautiful ceremony. I made it extra traditional-seeming by splurging in a massive veil. I struggle a lot with my Catholicism too and wasn’t a churchgoer at the time. There are some things that still trouble me after the fact. As someone in an “irregular marriage,” I’m not allowed to take communion or seek confession. If those are important to you, you may want to seek dispensation in advance. But for me, I’m content to sit with my discomfort. I don’t personally need the church’s approval for my marriage, and I can be a faithful person without being a perfect Catholic. But those were things I thought about long after our families had forgotten the ceremony. The best book I read before the wedding was “Emotionally Engaged: A Bride’s Guide to Surviving the Happiest Time of Her Life.” It helps with dealing with parental expectations and boundaries. You can email me if you like! I’m kellystopsworryingATgmail.
While there is a tonnnnnnnn of controversy and confusion surrounding it and I'm by no means an expert, Pope Francis's Amoris Laetitia states that Catholics in irregular marriages can consult with their local ecclesiastical authority (i.e. probably your priest) about taking the sacraments. Again, this totally depends on how strictly you want to interpret canon law! But there are options!
That is really nice to know!! Local priest in Texas was the one who told me to stop (I didn’t know and had been merrily taking the sacrament) but I’m about to move and maybe my new priest will feel differently.
Yes definitely!! I really really hate that people are told NOT to take the Eucharist for any reason, but especially on a technicality.
Hello! Devout Catholic married to a devout atheist here. We had a beloved family friend, who is also an ordained Lutheran minister, officiate our wedding. All three of us wrote the script together so that it would include a couple of prayers for me and plenty of secularity for him. The next day, we got married in the Catholic church with a priest that we both trusted -- it was a tiny ceremony that my very very religious family could attend if they wanted and I handpicked the readings so that it would be as inclusive as possible. Not all priests will do this, but you can shop around! (my grandmother is shuddering somewhere but it's true)
Shopping around is key. Ultimately the Church wants to get every marriage squared away so you will be able to take the sacraments, and produce more babies for Jesus. Some priests will also let you fudge the Pre-Cana stuff and only do the minimum of meetings with them.
Years ago, my husband and I had our Episcopalian/Catholic wedding jointly officiated. My Catholic priest would not permit the Eucharist under the auspices of my church, so communion was Episcopalian, and I have to say that has always just really bothered me. In retrospect, I wish we'd done a joint service with no communion at ll. It seemed like a little thing until consecration, and then it didn't seem little any more.
Hey Eva, as an Episcopalian married to a Jewish man, I know right where you're coming from. Navigating our wedding ceremony was tricky for sure (and neither of us is even especially religious!). FWIW, we used a book on interfaith weddings to come up with our own interfaith ceremony, officiated by both an Episcopal priest and a rabbi. We wanted to get married in a house of worship and looked at a bunch of churches and synagogues before choosing a very plain-Jane (as in, no giant cross!) Christian church, which was happy to have us bring in a chuppah. Anyway, I recommend looking at some books on interfaith ceremonies to get ideas. Figuring all of this out can be tricky, but it will lead to some good conversations between you and your boyfriend and help you get to know each other better. Lots of luck to you.
No wisdom to share but as a millennial progressive-Christian-with-more-conservative-parents living with a Jewish atheist, probably for as long as we both shall live, I understand how that goes.
The Catholic church has many options for an approved marriage other than a full Mass. My friend was married by a family friend, and later got her marriage blessed by our priest. The key is to find the right priest who will guide you to a ceremony that will please you, your boyfriend, and your parents.
Hi, are you me? I'm afraid I don't have any advice, but I am in an incredibly similar situation. Sending you my best.
I personally went to a Catholic mass (half-mass) wedding with a rabbi doing the homily this year. It was a little odd, but beautiful. At the end of the day, Catholics and Jews believe that marriage is a covenant, which is what the rabbi preached about.
This might not be helpful but... they’re gonna really panic about baptism. If you don’t mind and don’t think it matters, you might negotiate where you agree to baptize your kids in the church.
Yes. They will. And if they are anything like my parents, they'll have their own tiny vial of holy water they can sprinkle on your child while they babysit, "just in case."
99% sure my mom's parents secretly baptized us. Which is still better than what my dad's Baptist mother did, which was just constantly tell me I was going to hell because I wasn't saved...
Grandmas are brutal. Especially when it comes to eternal damnation.
For real. Honestly, my grandma traumatized me. She single-handedly did more to turn me off to Christianity than anyone else. As an adult I can recognize that she did it out of a genuine fear for my soul and forgive her for it, but it doesn't change the fact that I spent years terrified of hell but also so terrified of her version of God that I wanted nothing to do with him.
I can already tell you're going to get a lot of feedback on this, but just my 2 cents -- I got married in the Catholic church, husband raised Southern Baptist, secular at the time of our wedding, we did pre-cana and it was pretty tame (we live in Chicago so even the churches lean very liberal)/actually helpful and good. I loved our wedding ceremony (no Communion and definitely no separate veneration of Mary on my part? I actually don't know what that is about, even?). I think if my husband had been raised in a much different tradition, or if his family had strong feelings either way, it would have been a lot more fraught so I feel you there. But I think, maybe, this is one of those situations where if you don't do it, you might regret it but if you do do it, you almost definitely won't regret it.
(This may be a bit jumbled; I'm trying to type this before I start crying over it at work)
I would love any resources this group has on reconciling homosexuality with Christianity, along with reconciling one's faith with the Bible not needing to be inerrant to be true (I read and loved Rachel Held Evans' "Inspired").
I have no issues with either of these things, and have done a great deal of my own research that has lead to my reconciliation with seeming contradictions, but my husband is struggling with the belief that being a Christian requires adherence to the Bible being either *completely* right or *completely* wrong, and if the former, it requires believing that homosexuality is a sin.
It's become a difficult topic in our marriage, particularly as I've become more involved with LGBTQIA groups and friends, and I am considering going to an Episcopalian church whose head priest is gay (he's incredible, and that church also has female priests who regularly teach and speak during services--I love it, even while missing my protestant hymns). If you have book or article recommendations that address this topic, or that of inerrancy, I would sincerely appreciate it.
Please pray for him; for us--he has other faith struggles that usually leave him utterly miserable and convicted that he is damned, and I do not know how to comfort him.
I am holding space for both of you.
The books that I recommend for those thinking about LGBTQ folk and Christianity are: Justin Lee's book Torn, Matthew Vines' book God and the Gay Christian. They both grew up conservative and gay so their struggles are real. Justin Lee's is more narrative and Vines' book is more verse-by-verse, if that matters.
The documentary “Fish out of Water” goes through each bible verse that’s used against homosexuality and then explains why it actually doesn’t need to be translated or read that way at all (if that makes sense) - it’s my go-to reference because it really goes point by point refuting any homophobic uses of the Bible.
You might check out Q Christian Fellowship. Great people doing good work on these topics, and they have voices from different perspectives that are in my experience all very respectful and accepting of each other. Praying for you.
Shameless by Nadia Bolz Weber is great on sexual issues, and Rob Bell's What Is The Bible is great for "how should we treat the bible and figure out what it means for us today." Good luck as you navigate these issues. I pray your husband will find peace and comfort in the unchanging love of the God who made him (and who makes gay folks just as they are too).
Venting: So, after being extremely involved in church for pretty much his whole life, my husband came to the realization about 4 years ago that he doesn't really believe, well...any of it. Which is totally fine! What isn't totally fine is that his parents are EXTREMELY devout Evangelicals (started as Presbyterians but switched about a decade ago when that got too progressive). When they come to visit us, they usually stay for about 10-14 days, because it's kind of a hike from Kansas to where we live, and we have two kids they never see, so it it makes complete sense to stay for a while. Before my husband came to his big realization, he was going to a non-denominational Evangelical church and playing weekly in the band. He loves to play music, he liked his friends, he ran the youth band, etc. So, he always had some churchy stuff to talk about with his parents. After he realized he actually didn't believe any of it, we were basically lying and saying we were "looking for a church" whenever they came to visit. But, I've been feeling icky about it. I think it would be much healthier to just come out as an atheist to his parents, but he has no intention of doing so. He thinks they have already caught on and are avoiding unpleasant topics by just not bringing it up (his dad DID finally stop asking us to say blessings over our meals...we don't mind if he does it but we don't really feel comfortable doing it ourselves), and his family generally avoids talking about, well, pretty much everything. I don't know. The French/Italian Catholic in me just wants to have it out with these people and then move on, but his fear of their buttoned-up nature is preventing it. I just needed to vent because there is undeniable TENSION and it is driving me crazy!
I am so grateful for this space and for all of you!
I need some advice, if any of you would help! I grew up evangelical and only recently became hashtag exvangelical. I want to leave my current conservative evangelical bible study due to many theological, ethical, and political differences, but I still have some close friends in there with whom I don't want to burn bridges. How do I leave without being/sounding like a total asshole? (side note: this is also the kind of friend group that would invite you to lunch under false pretenses and then attack you with some "accountability" and "truth" and tbh the fear of that happening again has prevented me from leaving already)
This is a meandering mess of a question but would appreciate any recommendations :)
The fact that you are asking this proves that you will not leave in an asshole way, however I know that it is hard. When we left a group like this, we had something else in place with a new (progressive) church, and we said we were not able to do both and we were trying to commit to our new congregation. People were understanding (they didn't quite know how progressive our new church was or they would have been less understanding, I think) and it allowed us to leave fairly gracefully. I would suggest something like that - having something in place that they might understand that you are transferring to, if that makes sense.
Maggie, you have many paths possible. I am often times a path of least resistance if I don't want to cause a big scene. Using language familiar to the group that is honest about your path is an option. For example "I have been praying and discerning guidance from the Spirit and I am going to step away from this commitment to allow space in my life for God to bring new life/group/learning into my life"
Thank you!!!! This is really helpful.
Our very, very best friends came out of such an evangelical bible study. My husband now identifies as atheist and I am...well...who knows? Agnostic? I don't even know what I am. Anyway, we knew we couldn't keep going there, and once those friends moved away (to plant a new church, which is thriving) we had nothing keeping us there. We meet up with these friends still a few times a year, and last year we finally told them that we haven't been back to that church because really, it was only THEM that was keeping us there. We loved them and their friendship so MUCH, but not really the rest of the church. One of the things I valued (and still value!) about them as people is that even though they really, really want everyone to be saved, they really just love people and are really good at loving people where they are at, right here, right now. If your friends are good friends, hopefully they will understand that right now, you're just in a different space. I think you can still value their friendship, maintain a relationship, and go your separate ways religiously. I'm not sure we would have been able to do it so neatly if it hadn't been that they moved away, but they have been nothing but loving and understanding. I'm sure they pray for us all the time that we'll come back to church, and maybe one day I will, but they still come to birthdays and we go on family outings together and honestly, it wasn't as scary as I thought it would be, in the end.
I don't have advice, because when this happened to me I absolutely had to burn some bridges. I was in a Bible Study for medical spouses and after one of them had me over to her house to explain that Jesus basically wanted to give me a complete personality change, I realized I just couldn't keep going back. Sending love and support.
I am so sorry this happened to you. Thank you for the love and support - sending some back to you :)
Random thought, up for discussion: I’m ex-Evangelical. Heaven is always what I end up holding onto from all my faith past lives and I still wholeheartedly believe in it.
It flusters me when other ex-evangelicals or progressive Christians don’t believe in an afterlife (and I know many of these)—like, as long as you aren’t problematic about hell, what do you have to lose?
Idk why this bothers me. Would love to hear varying perspectives here!
Hi! I tend to tell my students (I teach at a Christian university) that if they're following Jesus out of fear of hell or hope of heaven, then they're not really following Jesus. They hate that. :-) But what I mean is similar to the poet Rab'ia:
O my Lord,
if I worship you
from fear of hell, burn me in hell.
If I worship you
from hope of Paradise, bar me from its gates.
But if I worship you
for yourself alone, grant me then the beauty of your Face.
Oooo I wonder if this bothers me because I feel like my real-time connection to Jesus isn’t great. That’s challenging (in a good way)
That may be it! And that's SO HARD to have after being evangelical. It's a relationship that's seen trauma, I imagine. Jesus is really my only comfort anymore, but it took a decade to let him back in. :-)
This might be weird, but do you have Twitter? You seem really smart and nice and I’d love to follow you!
I have a secret Twitter because my old work place was terrible. What’s your handle and I’ll dm you!
@katiesays_ !
❤️❤️❤️❤️
My view is more like The Great Divorce - everyone is welcome in God's presence but it might take longer for some people to choose it. So I believe in heaven but not really in hell. I don't really think this could be quite all there is.
Yeah, I'm heavily influenced by The Great Divorce. I have Thoughts and Theories about the details of the afterlife, but I kind of see them as fan fiction and settle into my "everything's going to be o.k." conviction as my core belief about what happens after death.
I don't actively believe or disbelieve in heaven -- I believe that, because God is good and because God loves beyond my (or anyone's) capacity to comprehend, it will be o.k. at the end.
Oh this made my heart so warm. What a lovely thought. And honestly probably closer to what I believe than a literal heaven, if I’m being honest with myself.
I'm an exvangelical progressive Christian and I don't think about the afterlife at all. I figure my potential for living out my faith in the world is right here and right now, and I can't convince myself to believe in anything even if I wanted to.
A lot of my friends are here. It’s good to consider this because I know I need to be able to empathize. For me that’s hard because life is shitty. I think when friends/folks say they don’t/can’t believe in the afterlife anymore, it feels like they’re saying “sorry if you feel like YOUR life is shitty and are looking for future comfort, mine’s just fine thanks” but that’s really my projection and not what they’re implying at all (I’m now realizing haha)
I feel like heaven would certainly be a lovely surprise! It's a great thing to have hope for. Resurrection, especially, is a gorgeous idea, for me. It's just so abstract and in-concrete that I can't really take hold of it right now.
I’m a progressive Christian, who grew up in that weird period in the nineties when previously middle of the road/progressive mainline Presbyterian churches suddenly Evangelicaled for all they were worth. It turns out in that at no point in my life of faith has Heaven ever been particularly important to me (this hasn’t stopped me from imagining my own perfect afterlife). This horrifies my best friend, who keenly looks forward to being reunited with her loved ones. I mean, I’d like there to be a heaven, but it’s not Important to me the way the Incarnation is. God with us! Here in this pain and mess!
I’m a Puddleglum Christian, I suppose. Maybe I’ve believed a pack of nonsensical myths for the last thirty-odd years. It could be. But I’ll keep trying to love the people around me with the love I believe I recieve from God. I’ll try to participate in the work of reconciliation and healing that I believe Jesus calls us to, even though I’m not particularly good at it.
If at the end of all of this, I’m compost? That will have been enough.
I'm COMPLETELY obsessed with the afterlife but currently feel really open as far as what it might look like. Traditional/evangelical idea of heaven where everyone is sort of an identity-less blob and we don't know our loved ones and all we do is sing?...is not for me. But I do believe there will be a heaven or something like it. I believe there's something after this.
I've had really interesting discussions lately about what will and won't be true there, and how many times we "live" and whether our souls existed before us in some other liminal space...a little woo-woo, probably, and I don't have any firm beliefs on any of it, but I LOVE talking about it. (And love media that deals with questions of the afterlife/other lives; RIP The OA)
Did not even know this was a thing! How interesting! Cannot imagine following Christ without a thought of the afterlife. It seems incredibly brave.
This is really new for me (all of it. I was raised Catholic and haven't been a part of a church for any kind for years), but would love some prayers for friends who are going through IVF. Ideally, that it all works out. But if it doesn't, to help them though what comes next - whatever that is.
My cool pastor asked me to consider mentoring a confirmation student. I have a lot of experience with kids and my volunteer opportunity fell through. Thoughts?
How great was that Andrew Garfield profile? It made me want to check out The Spiritual Exercises